rpg.pbem.online

Tabletop QOTD 2020-03-24

Borrowing from the idea of the Pluspora Check-in get some tabletop conversation going. If you have any questions that you want to get on the list to be asked, let me know. Also, if you'd like to be added or taken off the list of participants, let me know.


I know that designers are becoming more aware of diversity and inclusion, but it can be an area that is fraught with unknown landmines, especially during this time of transition to being more aware of marginalized groups.

Have you ever played a game that patronized you, or otherwise insulted you? And did you keep playing?


I've seen this a lot, and I think that I've just become inured to it. But I also think that this is an important area, and the hobby suffers when people are excluded either intentionally or unintentionally, so am interested in thoughts on the subject.

#Tabletop #QOTD

@Eric Franklin
@frasersimons
@Board Games Forum
@Curt Thompson
@Douglas Bailey
@Jesse Butler
@Keith Davies
@Martin Ralya
@Martijn Vos
@Nathan V
@Marsha B
@Stuntman
@Nathan Weaver
@Moe Tousignant
@PresGas (OSR) Aspect
@Craig Maloney
@Patrick Marchiodi
@Nathan Norway
@silverwizard
@Stephen Gunnell
@Joseph Teller
@Charles M
Never happened to me, but I'm a straight white man, so almost all products have always been falling over themselves to cater to me. It's good that games aim for more diversity and inclusivity.
The You Don't Know Jack series of video games was famous for insulting and belittling its competitors, and I loved those games.
The only one I remember, from many years ago, was a computer game I tried (once) in the Leisure Suit Larry series. That was a walk away from it game for me.

I avoid tabletop or roleplaying games that partonized or insulted me (and the GMs that ran them)
This topic is reminding me of a zine that was passed my way.

Esp since the typical population dominating gaming seems to be similarly privileged groups. I think it is good to also approach this topic from the other side; how to provide a game that is diverse and advocating. This is a punk rock/horizontalidad style zine too, so makes me like it all the more:

http://www.peernetbc.com/wordpress2017/wp-content/uploads/allyship101_online-screen-reader-friendly.pdf
Patronized or insulted in game? Not that I recall.

Patronized or insulted by designers? Oh yes. Apparently being straight white male makes me the problem.

I understand the principles of inclusion and equity and whatnot, and I've seen people who embrace them and practice them well.

I've also seen some pretty execrable behavior from some designers, and I avoid them.
@Keith Davies I understand if you don't want to name names, but... any examples of that? I don't recall getting that vibe from any designer 😕

Alternatively, what are examples of designers that practice inclusion well?
Being Asian, I actually loved the fact that the fluff for Space Base contained a character that was of Asian decent. It didn't make me buy the game. I loved the game after playing it once. When I bought the game finally, I was pleasantly surprised by the Asian character on the cover photo and fluff.
@Nathan Norway Yeah, I prefer to not name names. It doesn't do much good at this point.

There are some who lead well by example. They are inclusive, and it shows in their work. I like these ones.

There are some who are inclusive in their work, and publicize that they are so... which sometimes is the primary feature of an otherwise mediocre product.

And then there are those who fight anyone who doesn't stand up and agree with them on the matter... and often deliver a product that isn't very good, if it gets delivered at all (I've backed KS projects by some of these people and they're on the short list of projects I expect to never see the final product).
Now that you mention it, a very vocally inclusive game designer accused me of having made a vaguely homophobic comment when in fact his comment was more homophobic (though still vaguely) than mine. I called him on it and he closed the discussion and ignored me. This is a pretty well-known name with a very successful Kickstarter. I stopped supporting him, though I still have a lot of respect for his partner who is a good guy and less militant about appearing so.
I think that's one danger with the current climate- there are those that will support and will engage honestly trying to understand and be an ally- and they are belittled and condescended to, potentially alienating those that want to support. I understand the anger and frustration, but to take it out on those that are willing to consider and change seems counterproductive.
I felt patronized reading through the Mouse Guard Rulebook, 1st edition. The way Luke writes implies he knows more about roleplaying that you do and that he does it the right way and you have been doing it all wrong your whole life and he knows what he's doing so don't house rule anything because you don't actually know what your are doing.

Interestingly it must been made evident to him as the 2nd edition is much more reader friendly.
Huh. I have 2e, but never tried to read it after how much of a slog the 1e book was for exactly the reasons you outline, there, @Moe.